Legislature(2003 - 2004)

05/08/2003 03:14 PM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
          HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                                                                         
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                          May 8, 2003                                                                                           
                           3:14 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Peggy Wilson, Chair                                                                                              
Representative Carl Gatto, Vice Chair                                                                                           
Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                      
Representative Kelly Wolf                                                                                                       
Representative Sharon Cissna                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative John Coghill                                                                                                     
Representative Mary Kapsner                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Fred Dyson                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CONFIRMATION HEARING                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
University of Alaska, Board of Regents                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     David Parks - Anchorage                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     - CONFIRMATION(S) ADVANCED                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 157(HES)                                                                                                 
"An Act  relating to inpatient  psychiatric services  for persons                                                               
who  are under  21  years  of age  and  are  either eligible  for                                                               
medical assistance  or are  in the custody  of the  Department of                                                               
Health and Social Services."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSSB 157(HES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 292                                                                                                              
"An  Act  relating  to  information  and  services  available  to                                                               
pregnant women  and other persons; and  ensuring informed consent                                                               
before an abortion  may be performed, except in  cases of medical                                                               
emergency."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 157                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:INPATIENT PSYCHIATRIC SERVICES                                                                                      
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) GREEN                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
03/26/03     0592       (S)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
03/26/03     0592       (S)        HES, FIN                                                                                     
04/09/03                (S)        HES AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                 
04/09/03                (S)        Moved CSSB 157(HES) Out of                                                                   
                                   Committee                                                                                    
04/09/03                (S)        MINUTE(HES)                                                                                  
04/10/03     0781       (S)        HES RPT CS 3DP 2NR SAME TITLE                                                                
04/10/03     0781       (S)        DP: DYSON, GREEN, WILKEN;                                                                    
04/10/03     0781       (S)        NR: GUESS, DAVIS                                                                             
04/10/03     0781       (S)        FN1: ZERO(HSS)                                                                               
04/25/03     0966       (S)        FIN RPT CS(HES) 5DP 2NR                                                                      
04/25/03     0967       (S)        DP: GREEN, WILKEN, TAYLOR,                                                                   
                                   BUNDE,                                                                                       
04/25/03     0967       (S)        STEVENS B; NR: HOFFMAN, OLSON                                                                
04/25/03     0967       (S)        FN1: ZERO(HSS)                                                                               
04/25/03                (S)        FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE                                                                
                                   532                                                                                          
04/25/03                (S)        Moved Out of Committee                                                                       
04/25/03                (S)        MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                  
04/29/03     1028       (S)        RULES TO CALENDAR 4/29/2003                                                                  
04/29/03     1028       (S)        READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                         
04/29/03     1028       (S)        HES CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                  
04/29/03     1028       (S)        ADVANCED TO THIRD READING                                                                    
                                   4/30 CALENDAR                                                                                
04/30/03     1051       (S)        READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB
                                   157(HES)                                                                                     
04/30/03     1052       (S)        PASSED Y17 N- E1 A2                                                                          
04/30/03     1059       (S)        TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                           
04/30/03     1059       (S)        VERSION: CSSB 157(HES)                                                                       
05/01/03     1228       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
05/01/03     1228       (H)        HES, FIN                                                                                     
05/08/03                (H)        HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 292                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:ABORTION: INFORMED CONSENT; INFORMATION                                                                             
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)DAHLSTROM                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
04/30/03     1202       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
04/30/03     1202       (H)        HES, JUD                                                                                     
05/06/03                (H)        HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106                                                                   
05/06/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
                                   MINUTE(HES)                                                                                  
05/08/03                (H)        HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LYDA GREEN                                                                                                              
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  As sponsor of SB 157, explained the purpose                                                                
of the bill and answered questions from the members.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
KATHY CRONEN, Regional Vice President                                                                                           
Universal Health Services and                                                                                                   
North Star Behavioral Health System                                                                                             
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of SB 157 and answered                                                                
questions from committee members.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY DAHLSTROM                                                                                                  
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  As sponsor of HB 292, spoke to the                                                                         
amendments of the bill and answered questions from the members.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
JOHN SHERWOOD, Unit Manager                                                                                                     
Division of Medical Assistance                                                                                                  
Department of Health and Social Services                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 292 and responded to                                                                       
questions from the committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MYRNA GARDNER                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 292, and                                                                     
answered questions from the committee.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
BOB JOHNSON, M.D.                                                                                                               
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified via teleconference in opposition                                                                  
to HB 292.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
GENENEIVA PEARSON                                                                                                               
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified via teleconference  in opposition                                                               
to HB 292.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
KAREN VOSBURGH, Executive Director                                                                                              
Alaska Right to Life                                                                                                            
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified via teleconference  in support of                                                               
HB 292.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-41, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR PEGGY WILSON called the  House Health, Education and Social                                                             
Services  Standing  Committee  meeting  to  order  at  3:14  p.m.                                                               
Representatives Wilson,  Gatto, Seaton,  and Cissna  were present                                                               
at  the  call to  order.    Representative  Wolf arrived  as  the                                                               
meeting was in progress.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CONFIRMATION HEARING                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
University of Alaska, Board of Regents                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0086                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON announced that the  first order of business would be                                                               
the  confirmation  hearing  for  David Parks,  Appointee  to  the                                                               
University of  Alaska Board of  Regents.  She told  the committee                                                               
that Mr. Parks was selected by  the student body and appointed by                                                               
the governor  to fill the student  seat on the Board  of Regents.                                                               
Unfortunately, Mr.  Parks is  in Spain  until May  24 and  is not                                                               
available to  be interviewed by  the House Health,  Education and                                                               
Social  Services Standing  Committee.   Chair Wilson  pointed out                                                               
that  the  members  have  his  resume  in  their  packets.    The                                                               
University  of Alaska  has  asked the  committee  to approve  Mr.                                                               
Parks   and  forward   his  name   to  the   joint  session   for                                                               
confirmation.  Wendy  Redman is available from  the university to                                                               
answer any questions  the members might have.   Chair Wilson told                                                               
the committee  that the committee  packet includes a  letter from                                                               
Ms.  Redman,  and   information  about  student  representatives'                                                               
selection process.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  commented that  Mr. Parks' resume  is very                                                               
impressive  and  that  the  process   in  selecting  the  student                                                               
representative looks fair.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0142                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  made a motion to  advance the confirmation                                                               
of David  Parks, Appointee to  the University of Alaska  Board of                                                               
Regents, to the joint session  for consideration.  There being no                                                               
objection, the confirmation of David Parks was advanced.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SB 157-INPATIENT PSYCHIATRIC SERVICES                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON announced  that the next order of  business would be                                                               
CS FOR  SENATE BILL NO.  157(HES), "An Act relating  to inpatient                                                               
psychiatric services  for persons who  are under 21 years  of age                                                               
and  are either  eligible for  medical assistance  or are  in the                                                               
custody of the Department of Health and Social Services."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0243                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LYDA  GREEN, Alaska State  Legislature, as sponsor  of SB
157, explained  the purpose  of the  bill and  answered questions                                                               
from the members.   She told the committee that  SB 157 addresses                                                               
the need and concern about  psychiatric facilities for juveniles.                                                               
Too many  juveniles need services at  psychiatric facilities, and                                                               
currently  there is  a tendency  to  send these  children out  of                                                               
state.   Senator Green  said it  is her  desire to  place greater                                                               
emphasis on  determining if there is  a place in state  for these                                                               
students  where  they  can  remain  closer  to  their  homes  and                                                               
parents, and allow  them to reassimilate into  the community when                                                               
the  time comes.    Having  treatment in  state  would allow  for                                                               
assistance to the  families and other auxiliary  needs that might                                                               
be required when a child requires psychiatric services.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN pointed  out  the key  provisions  on the  sponsor                                                               
statement, which  says that the  Department of Health  and Social                                                               
Services  will   not  grant  assistance  or   pay  for  inpatient                                                               
psychiatric care for children under the  age of 21 who are placed                                                               
in  an   out-of-state  facility  unless  adequate   services  are                                                               
unavailable  in the  state.   The  department  will evaluate  the                                                               
types of  services available in  state and  subsequently transfer                                                               
these  students back  to Alaska  when a  room becomes  available,                                                               
unless  the  transfer  would  be  detrimental  to  the  student's                                                               
health, therapeutic  relationship, or clinical needs.   This bill                                                               
would also encourage  those who provide these  services to create                                                               
local facilities so these kids can stay at home.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0410                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN  told the  committee that  the bill  identifies two                                                               
classes of individuals.  Section  1 primarily deals with Medicaid                                                               
recipients "in custody  and non-custody."  Sections 2  and 3 deal                                                               
with kids  who are in state  custody.  For  a child is who  is on                                                               
Medicaid there  is one standard,  and for a  child who is  in the                                                               
custody of  the state there  is another  standard.  She  said she                                                               
believes that  the review  process should  be consistent.   State                                                               
regulation currently  mandates the review  process and sets  up a                                                               
review team.   It is a  fairly rigorous system, and  a variety of                                                               
people are required to examine,  review, and determine what is in                                                               
the  best  interest  of  the  child.   It  is  not  an  arbitrary                                                               
decision.   Nor  should it  be.   There are  many steps  that are                                                               
taken  before a  child  is determined  to  be institution  bound.                                                               
Some  of  these  include  foster   care,  special  care,  medical                                                               
treatment, and  group therapy.   There are many  steps, including                                                               
assistance for the  family and the child, to  work through before                                                               
institutionalization is  determined necessary.   These provisions                                                               
are part of the legislation.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0508                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON  commented that the  state has already  gone through                                                               
several  steps   and  that  those   options  have   already  been                                                               
implemented before this point [institutionalization] is reached.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN replied  that there  is an  inpatient disciplinary                                                               
team that  would parallel, for  example, an  individual education                                                               
program  (IEP) that  is  designed for  student  education.   They                                                               
review and determine what is needed,  what must be done, and what                                                               
cannot  be  allowed  to  happen.     The  team  would  assist  in                                                               
determining what is the best treatment for that child.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0576                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA commented  that  this  bill addresses  the                                                               
numbers  of youth  who have  been  sent out  of state  relatively                                                               
recently,  as in  the  last ten  years.   She  asked whether  the                                                               
Alaska Youth Initiative (AYI) program relates to any of this.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0626                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN responded that AYI is an in-state option.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA commented  that  AYI  was historically  an                                                               
extraordinarily successful in-state option  and it is tragic that                                                               
it  is not  available.    She said  she  is  concerned about  the                                                               
language in the  fiscal note [under Analysis] where  it says that                                                               
"this bill  addresses the perception  that our mental  health and                                                               
residential treatment  service system relies too  heavily on out-                                                               
of-state placement".   Representative Cissna said  that those who                                                               
have been deeply involved in  the issue concerning kids' suddenly                                                               
being transferred  out-of-state do not share  the perception that                                                               
it is a fact.  She asked Senator Green to comment on this point.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0684                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN replied  that she  could not  speak to  the fiscal                                                               
note  or the  language,  but  she said  that  there  has been  an                                                               
incredible  increase, probably  an anomaly,  since the  advent of                                                               
Denali  KidCare.    Children are  being  transferred  outside  of                                                               
Alaska  without the  interdisciplinary team  focused as  fully as                                                               
would be desired.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA  asked  if  this  is  being  for  paid  by                                                               
Medicaid funds.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN responded that is  correct.  Medicaid funding needs                                                               
to be tightened up as well.   This legislation will determine the                                                               
appropriate way of handling these issues.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN  noted that Representative  Seaton was  leaving the                                                               
hearing and before he went she  wanted to address a question that                                                               
he  asked  her  staff  about  this legislation.    She  told  the                                                               
committee  that Medicaid  determines how  much will  be paid  for                                                               
treatment.   If  a request  is made  for something  that is  more                                                               
expensive, for example, treatment  that requires that the student                                                               
stay  here versus  sending  the student  out  of state,  Medicaid                                                               
determines the rate.   Senator Green reiterated  that Alaska does                                                               
not have any control over the rate.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0804                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KATHY CRONEN, Regional Vice  President, Universal Health Services                                                               
(UHS), testified  in support  of SB  157, and  answered questions                                                               
from  committee  members.    She  told  the  committee  that  UHS                                                               
[recently acquired]  North Star Behavioral Health  System ("North                                                               
Star").    Prior  to  her  current position  she  was  the  chief                                                               
executive  officer (CEO)  at North  Star for  the past  18 years.                                                               
She said  she has been  involved daily with/in  decisions related                                                               
to sending  kids outside  of Alaska to  treatment centers  in the                                                               
Lower  48  states.    Currently  there are  300  to  400  Alaskan                                                               
children in residential treatment centers  in the Lower 48.  This                                                               
has  devastating  long-term impacts  on  these  children, on  the                                                               
families, and ultimately  on our state.  Last year  the House and                                                               
Senate  unanimously passed  SCR  21.   This bill  [SB  157] is  a                                                               
formalization of  that resolution to  complete the good  work the                                                               
legislature  started  last year.    Mental  health treatment  and                                                               
follow-up  care  should   be  done  close  to   home,  she  said.                                                               
Coordination between  the residential treatment provider  and the                                                               
ongoing outpatient  treatment provider is essential.   Ms. Cronen                                                               
reiterated  that  it  needs  to   be  done  in  close  proximity.                                                               
Treatment should involve families  because the family's treatment                                                               
is critical  to children's long-term  success.   Family treatment                                                               
that is delivered over the telephone  is just not as effective as                                                               
treatment that is done face-to-face.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0923                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. CRONEN told  the committee that the  legislature's support of                                                               
this bill  will encourage providers like  North Star, Providence,                                                               
or any long-term treatment provider  to expand the number of beds                                                               
because  there  will be  a  commitment  to  keep kids  in  state.                                                               
Valuable Medicaid dollars  are currently being sent  to the Lower                                                               
48, and the state  is losing jobs.  If North  Star were to expand                                                               
beds in Alaska to  meet the needs of the number  of kids that are                                                               
outside, there would be an additional  400 jobs created.  This is                                                               
good  public  policy,  she  said.   It  is  good  for  the  kids'                                                               
treatment; it is good for  families; it keeps Medicaid dollars in                                                               
state; and  it creates  jobs.  Ms.  Cronen said it  is a  win for                                                               
everyone, and she encouraged the members to support the bill.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0949                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO said  that  he would  like  to discuss  the                                                               
fiscal note  for the record.   He pointed  out that if  the state                                                               
sends kids  outside of  Alaska, the  state has  to pay  for their                                                               
education; if  the state keeps the  kids here at home,  the state                                                               
pays for  their education.   He  said he does  not know  which is                                                               
more  or less  expensive.   He  asked how  the legislature  knows                                                               
which is more expensive, since the fiscal note says zero?                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CRONEN  responded  that  she   can  provide  some  firsthand                                                               
experience because  she is  responsible for  the UHS  facility in                                                               
Provo, Utah.  She said that  30 percent of the student population                                                               
in that  facility is  Alaskan kids.   The  price at  Provo Canyon                                                               
School  is less  than the  price here,  but it  does not  include                                                               
transportation,  nor   does  it   take  into   consideration  the                                                               
treatment outcome of the kids.   The costs can be slightly lower,                                                               
but when adding in the  costs of transportation and education the                                                               
price  is  comparable.   She  said  she believes  the  department                                                               
agrees because it has provided a zero fiscal note.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1027                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO  said that  he  has  had discussions  about                                                               
prisoner transfers  to out-of-state facilities where  a number of                                                               
factors  are evaluated  including the  cost, transportation,  and                                                               
the opinion  that there is a  better result if the  prisoners are                                                               
kept  at home.   Is  there any  evidence that  kids that  stay in                                                               
Alaska do better than those sent out of state?                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON responded  that all the members have to  do is think                                                               
about how  they would feel if  it was their child  being sent out                                                               
of  state.   Would anyone  want  his/her child  to get  treatment                                                               
where the parent could not take part?   She said she thinks it is                                                               
important to look at this legislation  as a policy issue, and not                                                               
look at  the finances.   She said she  believes it is  better for                                                               
the  kids  and  the  families to  have  interaction,  go  through                                                               
treatment together, and try to work  things out.  She pointed out                                                               
that in some instances, parents do  not even have the money to go                                                               
see the kids.   Chair Wilson asked the committee  to look at this                                                               
legislation in that light.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1093                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN pointed to this  year's supplemental budget wherein                                                               
there  was approximately  [$366,000]  to [$400,000]  supplemental                                                               
request for  educational fees for  out-of-state facilities.   She                                                               
told the  committee that there  was $663,000 in fiscal  year 2002                                                               
(FY 02) and it is expected to  be $866,000 to $870,000 for FY 03.                                                               
The average  cost is $5,160  per student  for an average  of 78.5                                                               
education  days.   Education costs  charged  by facilities  range                                                               
from $38  per day to  $102 per day  in some of  these facilities.                                                               
So if  the $102  rate is  multiplied by  the required  180 school                                                               
days, one can make the leap  very quickly that it is multiples of                                                               
what  the  state  is  providing for  the  education  of  Alaska's                                                               
children in state.  The proposal  is $500,000 for FY 04, but with                                                               
the  continuing increase  of children  going out  of state,  that                                                               
number  will continue  to rise  and certainly  will be  more than                                                               
this year's authorized and supplemental budget of $900,000.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1179                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  commented that  she served on  the Finance                                                               
Subcommittee on Education in 1999  when this issue was looked at.                                                               
At that time  it was more expensive per child  partly because the                                                               
school district  absorbed the  students in  Alaska, but  in cases                                                               
where they  are sent Outside,  the money must  be sent out.   She                                                               
said she was shocked at that time.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO asked  how many  of the  children that  are                                                               
sent Outside are returned.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CRONEN  responded  that  she believes  that  is  a  clinical                                                               
decision based  on where the  kids are  in treatment and  if they                                                               
are eligible to be returned.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  commented that  there are some  cases where                                                               
it is better to take the child away from the family.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. CRONEN  replied that  it is  not just  the families  that the                                                               
kids  need  to  be  attached  to.    There  are  many  people  in                                                               
communities that  kids respond to, for  instance, their teachers,                                                               
school  counselor, pastor  or minister,  or  a neighbor.   It  is                                                               
important to keep  kids connected to the healthy  people in their                                                               
lives.  She  said if it is not their  families, and unfortunately                                                               
oftentimes it  is not, then  it is important  to make sure  it is                                                               
someone in their local community.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1313                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  GREEN asked  the members  to look  at page  2, paragraph                                                               
(b), on line 3, where it says:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
      "The department shall, on a monthly basis, evaluate                                                                       
     what types of services are available in the state for                                                                      
     inpatient psychiatric care"                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GREEN said  on the same page and paragraph  on line 11 it                                                               
says  that the  transfer cannot  be detrimental  to the  person's                                                               
health.    If that  were  the  case,  the  student would  not  be                                                               
transferred.     For   example,  if   there  is   an  established                                                               
therapeutic relationship  or a clinical  need for the  student to                                                               
be Outside,  then the  student would not  be transferred.   There                                                               
would be  a complete review.   She  told the committee  the other                                                               
factor that needs  to be considered in all of  this is that there                                                               
is space available in Alaska.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1359                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOLF  moved  to   report  CSSB  157(HES)  out  of                                                               
committee  with individual  recommendations and  the accompanying                                                               
fiscal  notes.   There  being  no  objection, CSSB  157(HES)  was                                                               
reported out of  the House Health, Education  and Social Services                                                               
Standing Committee.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease from 3:40 p.m. to 3:41 p.m.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
HB 292-ABORTION: INFORMED CONSENT; INFORMATION                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON announced that the  final order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL NO. 292, "An  Act relating to information and services                                                               
available  to  pregnant women  and  other  persons; and  ensuring                                                               
informed consent before  an abortion may be  performed, except in                                                               
cases of medical emergency."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON  told the  members that while  there are  members of                                                               
the public  that would like to  testify on the bill,  she will be                                                               
taking  up the  amendments to  the  bill, as  the amendments  may                                                               
address some of the public's concerns.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1438                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked  Representative Dahlstrom, sponsor of                                                               
HB  292,  if she  is  in  agreement  with  the amendments  he  is                                                               
proposing before the committee.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1464                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  NANCY  DAHLSTROM,  Alaska State  Legislature,  as                                                               
sponsor  of HB  292,  spoke to  the amendments  of  the bill  and                                                               
answered   questions  from   the   members.     In  response   to                                                               
Representative  Seaton question,  she  responded that  she is  in                                                               
agreement with the amendments.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1518                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON moved  to  adopt Amendment  1, which  read                                                               
[original punctuation provided]:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 9,                                                                                                            
     After "professional conduct" delete the words                                                                              
     in a critical area of practice                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 13,                                                                                                           
     After "on the Internet" insert the words                                                                                   
       that is reviewed and approved by the State Medical                                                                     
     Board and                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 1 and 2,                                                                                                     
     After "private choices" delete                                                                                             
     between permanent and life affecting alternatives                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 3,                                                                                                            
     After "information site" insert the words                                                                                  
       that is reviewed and approved by the State Medical                                                                     
     Board                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 8 through 10,                                                                                                
     Delete all material                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 19,                                                                                                           
     After "agencies" delete                                                                                                    
     and and insert ,                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 21                                                                                                            
     After "(B)" insert                                                                                                         
     agencies, services,                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 22                                                                                                            
     After "and services" insert                                                                                                
     and                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, 23,                                                                                                                
     Create a new sub-section that shall read                                                                                   
         {C} agencies, services, clinics and facilities                                                                       
      designed to assist or provide contraceptive options                                                                     
     and counseling;                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 30,                                                                                                           
     After "abortions services;" insert                                                                                         
      and the circumstantial criteria for the availability                                                                    
     of medical assistance benefits for contraception;                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 12,                                                                                                           
     After "objective nonjudgmental, and" insert                                                                                
       that is reviewed and approved by the State Medical                                                                     
     Board and                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 1,                                                                                                            
     After "information that" insert                                                                                            
     is  reviewed and  approved by  the State  Medical Board                                                                  
     and                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 20                                                                                                            
     After "unbiased information" insert                                                                                        
     that  is reviewed  and approved  by  the State  Medical                                                                  
     Board                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 24,                                                                                                           
     Create a new sub-section that shall read                                                                                   
          (9)     contains    objective,     unbiased    and                                                                  
     comprehensive   information   that  is   reviewed   and                                                                  
     approved by the State  Medical Board on different types                                                                  
     of  available  contraceptive  choices and  the  medical                                                                  
     risk  and  possible complications  commonly  associated                                                                  
     with each method as well  as the possible psychological                                                                  
     effects   that   have   been  associated   with   using                                                                  
     contraceptives.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, line 16,                                                                                                           
     Delete                                                                                                                     
     at least 24 hours before the abortion procedure,                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6, line 16,                                                                                                           
     After "this section" insert                                                                                                
     that do  not violate  the woman's privacy  by including                                                                  
     her   name   or   any   another   [other]   identifying                                                                
     information.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6, line 23,                                                                                                           
     After "whether the" insert                                                                                                 
     unidentified                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                              
Number 1523                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA objected to the motion.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON told the committee that she would like to                                                                          
individually discuss each change to the bill.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said on  page 1, line  9, after  the words                                                               
"professional  conduct", delete  the words  "in critical  area of                                                               
practice."   He pointed  out that the  State of  Alaska regulates                                                               
all of those professional standards of conduct.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON asked Representative Seaton to clarify whether                                                                     
those words are in existing statute.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON responded  that this  is a  new bill  [new                                                               
law].                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said that [on  page one] line 13, after the                                                               
words "on the  Internet", insert the words "that  is reviewed and                                                               
approved  by the  State Medical  Board  and".   This language  is                                                               
inserted so that there is  a standard for scientific and unbiased                                                               
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said  that on page 2, lines 1  and 2, after                                                               
the words "private choices", delete  the words "between permanent                                                               
and life affecting alternatives".                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said that  on [page 2]  line 3,  after the                                                               
words "information site", insert the  words "that is reviewed and                                                               
approved  by the  State Medical  Board".   Representative  Seaton                                                               
asked if he could make a change  to that amendment.  He said that                                                               
he wants  to make sure  the same wording is  used as that  in the                                                               
previous section.   So instead of the  wording "after information                                                               
site", it will  be "after information site on  the Internet", and                                                               
then  insert the  words "that  is  reviewed and  approved by  the                                                               
State Medical Board".                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1710                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON commented that this  is amending the amendment.  She                                                               
said  on page  2,  line  3, of  the  amendment,  after the  words                                                               
"information site", she will insert the words "on the Internet".                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON  asked if  there was any  objection to  amending the                                                               
amendment.   There  being no  objection, she  announced that  the                                                               
amendment to Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said that on  page 2, lines 8-10  would be                                                               
deleted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1735                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF asked what is the purpose of that amendment.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON replied  that  the information  is out  of                                                               
context  with  the  other  findings.   He  said  there  has  been                                                               
considerable  testimony  on both  sides  of  the issue,  and  the                                                               
purpose is  to show that  there are findings  on this and  not to                                                               
try to weight the bill one way or another.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1798                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said that  on page 2,  line 19,  after the                                                               
word "agencies", delete the word "and" and insert ",".                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said the  next change is  on page  2, line                                                               
19, after the  word "services", insert the  following: ", clinics                                                               
and facilities".                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON said  on  page 2,  line  21, after  "(B)",                                                               
insert "agencies, services,".                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said on page  2, line 22, after  the words                                                               
"and services", insert the word "and".                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said  on page 2, line 23,  a new subsection                                                               
will  be created  that  will  read as  follows:   "(C)  agencies,                                                               
services, clinics  and facilities  designed to assist  or provide                                                               
contraceptive options and counseling;".                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1869                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL asked for  clarification on this language.                                                               
Is this wording  an effort to address  organizations like Planned                                                               
Parenthood?                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  replied that is  correct.  It  would cover                                                               
Planned Parenthood  or other  organizations that  may need  to be                                                               
covered.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said on page  2, line 30, after  the words                                                               
"abortions services;",  insert the following language:   "and the                                                               
circumstantial   criteria  for   the   availability  of   medical                                                               
assistance benefits for contraception;".                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON  pointed out that  a word was  added that is  not on                                                               
the  amendment document  provided  to the  committee.   The  word                                                               
"and" was added.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON responded  that it was an  error in reading                                                               
the  amendment.   He  had not  intended to  add  anything to  the                                                               
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1938                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said on page  3, line 12, after  the words                                                               
"objective, nonjudgmental,  and", insert the  following language:                                                               
"that is reviewed and approved by the State Medical Board and".                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  commented that this language  is to ensure                                                               
that the  information that is portrayed  is scientific, accurate,                                                               
and consistent throughout the bill.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WILSON  asked about  the  next  portion of  the  amendment                                                               
because the numbering appears to go back up to line 1.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  responded that  is a  typographical error.                                                               
It should have read page 3, line 15 [not line 1].                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said on page  3, line 15, after  the words                                                               
"information that", insert "that is  reviewed and approved by the                                                               
State Medical Board and".                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 2039                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON moved to adopt  a conceptual amendment to change the                                                               
wording from page 3,  line "1" to read page 3,  line "15".  There                                                               
being  no   objection,  she  announced  that   the  amendment  to                                                               
Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said on page  3, line 20, after  the words                                                               
"unbiased information",  insert the  words "that is  reviewed and                                                               
approved by the State Medical Board".                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said  on page 3, line 24,  a new subsection                                                               
is created  which reads:   "(9) contains objective,  unbiased and                                                               
comprehensive information  that is  reviewed and approved  by the                                                               
State   Medical   board   on   different   types   of   available                                                               
contraceptive  choices   and  the   medical  risk   and  possible                                                               
complications  commonly associated  with each  method as  well as                                                               
the  possible psychological  effects  that  have been  associated                                                               
with using contraceptives."                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WILSON  commented  that  this  subsection  is  information                                                               
related  to   pregnancy  and  pregnancy  alternatives   that  the                                                               
department shall maintain on the Internet in printable form.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2130                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  said that the previous  sentence should end                                                               
in "; and" to make it accurate.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON moved to amend the  amendment on page 3, line 23, by                                                               
deleting the "."  and insert ";".  There being  no objection, the                                                               
amendment to Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2172                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  asked for  some  discussion  on the  new                                                               
subsection  where  it  provides  for the  State  Medical  Board's                                                               
approval  of the  information.    The bill  also  allows for  the                                                               
Department  of Health  and Social  Services,  Division of  Public                                                               
Health to  review this information.   He asked if the  purpose of                                                               
the amendment is to have two reviews of the language.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON responded  that  the  information will  be                                                               
created  by the  department  and reviewed  by  the State  Medical                                                               
Board.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL asked if anyone  has talked with the State                                                               
Medical  Board on  this.   He  said he  is  curious whether  this                                                               
complies with its  scope of authority.  He  suggested that should                                                               
be explored.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2253                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON said  on page  5, line  16, the  words "at                                                               
least 24 hours before the abortion procedure," are deleted.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON  commented that this  would delete the  required 24-                                                               
hour waiting period.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON responded that is correct.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2270                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  asked  Representative  Seaton  what  the                                                               
rationale is behind this change.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  commented that  the testimony heard  in an                                                               
earlier hearing is that the  waiting period would vastly increase                                                               
the  cost  and  delay  other   patients  from  receiving  medical                                                               
services   because  of   the  limited   number  of   appointments                                                               
available.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2272                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAHLSTROM told  the  committee  that in  speaking                                                               
with Senator  Dyson, who is  the cosponsor of the  companion bill                                                               
in the other  body [SB 30], they are  comfortable with shortening                                                               
the  time  period to  address  some  of  the issues  the  medical                                                               
community has  expressed.  However,  they do believe  there needs                                                               
to be a waiting period, contemplation period, or an absorption-                                                                 
of-information period.   Representative  Dahlstrom said  she does                                                               
not support taking any time limit out of the bill.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2304                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL commented  that  this will  be a  two-day                                                               
process  from  the  time  of   contact.    There  are  early-term                                                               
abortions that could happen on the  first day.  The further along                                                               
in pregnancy, the more time  is required.  Removing this language                                                               
creates some pressure  in making the decision for  those who have                                                               
early-term  pregnancies, and  in his  view this  is an  informed-                                                               
consent issue.   One size  does not fit  all for the  time limit.                                                               
There needs to be more work done  in this section of the bill, he                                                               
concluded.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  responded that  he has  no objection  to a                                                               
contemplation time.   He  said he believes  to force  someone who                                                               
has come in  from the Bush to overnight an  extra night creates a                                                               
hardship.  As  long as the contemplation time is  short enough so                                                               
that  the  patient  could  have the  procedure  during  the  same                                                               
appointment, it would be helpful.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2374                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAHLSTROM  commented  that  when  the  amendments                                                               
being presented  by Representative  Seaton are complete,  she has                                                               
an  amendment that  she would  like to  present to  the committee                                                               
that addresses some of the  issues being discussed today and some                                                               
of the  issues raised in  Dr. Murphy's testimony yesterday.   She                                                               
stated that most  of the women have the abortion  scheduled a few                                                               
weeks ahead  of time.  If  there were a printable  signature page                                                               
on the web site, that would address this issue.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-41, SIDE B                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  said he  does not want  to slow  down the                                                               
discussion of these amendments.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said on page  5, line 16, after  the words                                                               
"this section", insert  the following:  "that do  not violate the                                                               
woman's privacy  by including her  name or any  other identifying                                                               
information."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said on page  6, line 23, after  the words                                                               
"whether the", insert the word "unidentified".                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said that the  purpose of this change is to                                                               
ensure  that  these reports  are  kept  confidential and  do  not                                                               
contain any identifying information.   This language assures that                                                               
the law follows the federal guidelines.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2314                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM said she is  comfortable with all of the                                                               
changes with the  exception of the one on page  5, line 16, which                                                               
deletes the 24-hour waiting period.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WILSON suggested  that the  committee  accept Amendment  1                                                               
with the  agreement that there will  be a change in  the language                                                               
to address  Representative Dahlstrom's concern about  the removal                                                               
of the  24-hour waiting  period.  There  being no  objection, she                                                               
announced that Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  brought attention to Amendment  2, labeled                                                               
23-LS0867\H.1, Lauterbach, 5/7/03, which read:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, line 24, following "woman":                                                                                        
       Insert "and the pregnant woman's estate, and only                                                                        
         to the pregnant woman and the pregnant woman's                                                                         
     estate,"                                                                                                                   
          Following "damages":                                                                                                  
               Insert "caused by the violation"                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WILSON  labeled the  foregoing  Amendment  2.   She  asked                                                               
Representative Seaton to explain it.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON told  the  committee that  the purpose  of                                                               
Amendment 2 is to ensure that it  is clear that the woman and her                                                               
estate  are  the   entities  that  would  be   entitled  to  this                                                               
presumptive  information.   This is  to demonstrate  a rebuttable                                                               
presumption and that  this accrues to a woman and  her estate and                                                               
not a  third party.   For example,  Greenpeace, Right to  Life, a                                                               
church, or someone not involved would  not be able to come in and                                                               
assert for the woman, and get this information.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2184                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO  said  he  believes there  needs  to  be  a                                                               
sponsor statement and  a sectional analysis on this  bill.  Since                                                               
there are so many amendments [changes]  all at one time, he asked                                                               
if there is a summary of what the amendments accomplish.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL commented  that he  was trying  to follow                                                               
the  rationale  on this  amendment.    He  said he  is  concerned                                                               
whether this is legal.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  responded that  the Legislative  Legal and                                                               
Research  Services  drafted  this   language  to  make  sure  the                                                               
amendment is  correct.  This  change is  only to prevent  a third                                                               
party from filing  a lawsuit on someone's behalf that  is not the                                                               
woman or her estate.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2113                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL removed his objection to the amendment.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAHLSTROM  asked  if the  Legislative  Legal  and                                                               
Research Services talked about parental consent being involved.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said that  they did  not talk  about that.                                                               
But he said he  assumes it is the person who  has consent and the                                                               
interested  parties.    This  could   be  researched  further  by                                                               
Legislative Legal and Research Services  to ensure that situation                                                               
is covered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAHLSTROM responded  that she  will follow  up on                                                               
that issue.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  reiterated  that   he  has  removed  his                                                               
objection.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2045                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WILSON  said  that  without  objection,  Amendment  2  was                                                               
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   SEATON  responded   to  Representative   Gatto's                                                               
request for a sponsor statement  on the amendments by saying that                                                               
this is a very complex bill  and it could be a very controversial                                                               
subject.   The intent of these  amendments is to take  as much of                                                               
the emotional fabric  out of the bill so that  it will have broad                                                               
support.    This  can be  accomplished  by  inserting  scientific                                                               
evidence, review  of that  evidence, and  assurance that  it does                                                               
not restrict a  woman's right to access information  and does not                                                               
remove confidentiality from medical  procedure; then there can be                                                               
broad support  for this bill.   Representative  Seaton summarized                                                               
his  statement by  saying his  intent is  to aid  the sponsor  in                                                               
getting a bill that can have broad support.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1990                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  commented that  he agrees  with a  lot of                                                               
what Representative Seaton says; however,  he is not a scholar on                                                               
the amendments  that were presented.   He reiterated  his concern                                                               
that  the  Department  of  Health  and  Social  Services  already                                                               
provides  many  brochures on  a  variety  of health  and  women's                                                               
issues.  None  of them, to his knowledge, need  to be reviewed by                                                               
the State Medical  Board before they are provided  to the public.                                                               
He wonders  if this bill is  starting a precedent and  wonders if                                                               
that is what the legislature wants  to do.  He told the committee                                                               
that at this point he is not prepared  to agree to that.  He said                                                               
he would like to take that portion out of the bill.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WILSON  asked  if  the Department  of  Health  and  Social                                                               
Services is available to address this question.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON told the committee  that because of the many changes                                                               
to  the bill,  she is  inclined  to hold  the bill  and have  the                                                               
committee  review  the  committee  substitute.    She  asked  the                                                               
sponsor and  other members of  the committee what  their thoughts                                                               
are on this.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM  responded that  she would be  fine with                                                               
that.   She said  she does  have a  question for  the department.                                                               
She  said  she  knows  the  department  makes  many  publications                                                               
available to  the public.   For example, the  department provides                                                               
brochures about  fetal alcohol syndrome and  informational flyers                                                               
about smoking  while pregnant.  She  would like to know  if those                                                               
brochures  are reviewed  by the  State  Medical Board  or if  the                                                               
department has full control over those publications.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1860                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  SHERWOOD, Unit  Manager,  Division  of Medical  Assistance,                                                               
Department of  Health and  Social Services,  testified on  HB 292                                                               
and  responded to  questions  from  the committee.    He said  he                                                               
cannot  claim  to be  familiar  with  all  of the  brochures  and                                                               
pamphlets that  the department provides;  however, he  wanted the                                                               
committee to be aware that  this information comes from a variety                                                               
of sources.   Some things  are written in-house, and  some things                                                               
are  provided to  the department  by  different federal  agencies                                                               
that  are  in  the  business of  providing  this  information  in                                                               
supporting states.  He said he  is not aware of anything going to                                                               
the  State  Medical  Board  or  some  other  in-state  board  for                                                               
approval,  but  there  could  be  some  instance  when  that  has                                                               
occurred that he is not aware of.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1837                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL commented  that  the question  is how  to                                                               
verify  scientifically  appropriate   and  accurate  information.                                                               
Within the  department's scope  of work  there must  be instances                                                               
when  a  variety of  different  brochures  or pamphlets  must  be                                                               
verified for accuracy.  Does  the department have a process where                                                               
the   information  is   examined  for   accuracy,  scientifically                                                               
accurate, and et cetera?                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. SHERWOOD  stated that is  not within his particular  scope of                                                               
work; however, he  assumes the Division of  Public Health medical                                                               
professionals would review the information  and determine that it                                                               
is  accurate before  it would  be disseminated.   He  said he  is                                                               
comfortable making that statement.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1797                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL commented  that last  year the  committee                                                               
talked about this  issue with the head of the  Division of Public                                                               
Health.   The  director had  very firm  views on  this issue  and                                                               
assured   the   committee   that   the   division   could   craft                                                               
scientifically accurate  information.  The doctors  who are hired                                                               
to work  in the Division of  Public Health are quite  capable, he                                                               
said.    Representative  Coghill  said that  is  his  reason  for                                                               
bringing this question to the  committee.  Representative Coghill                                                               
agreed with Chair Wilson's idea about  holding the bill so that a                                                               
few  phone  calls could  be  made  to  confirm and  clarify  some                                                               
information.     He  said  he   is  interested  in   seeing  this                                                               
legislation pass.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1750                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  commented that she has  several questions,                                                               
some of  which will  be handled in  the House  Judiciary Standing                                                               
Committee.   Her concern  is that  this bill  would appear  to be                                                               
creating obstacles  to abortion, which is  unconstitutional.  She                                                               
asked  if  this  bill  is  affected  by  the  new  HIPAA  [Health                                                               
Insurance Portability and Accountability  Act] rules that have to                                                               
do  with confidentiality.   Some  people  she has  talked to  say                                                               
these   rules  are   much  more   complicated   than  the   state                                                               
understands.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON stated that she  will request that the Department of                                                               
Health  and  Social  Services  look  into  that  question  before                                                               
Tuesday, when the bill will be heard again.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA said  that those that have  been waiting to                                                               
testify on line may contribute  things that the committee has not                                                               
thought of.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON announced  that she will be  closing the discussions                                                               
soon.  However,  once the committee substitute  is available, the                                                               
committee will send a copy of  it to anyone in the committee room                                                               
or on line  who would like to  see it.  She  apologized to anyone                                                               
who  has been  waiting  to  testify, but  said  she believes  the                                                               
amendments have changed  the bill significantly and  it is likely                                                               
many  of  the  public  questions have  been  addressed  in  those                                                               
changes.   Chair Wilson  said public testimony  will be  taken on                                                               
Tuesday.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON  said copies will  be sent  to the members  prior to                                                               
the next meeting.   If any members wish to  offer amendments, she                                                               
asked  that they  talk with  the sponsor  and provide  a copy  of                                                               
proposed amendments prior to the meeting.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1604                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA  pointed out  that some  of the  people who                                                               
wish to  testify could  have come to  meetings twice,  taken time                                                               
off of  work, or arranged  for babysitters,  all in an  effort to                                                               
testify.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1593                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON  agreed with  Representative Cissna.   She  asked if                                                               
there is anyone on line who  would find it difficult to return to                                                               
the hearing on Tuesday.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1571                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MYRNA GARDNER,  testified in  opposition to  HB 292  and answered                                                               
questions from the committee.   She questioned that the intent of                                                               
the  bill is  to provide  an  unbiased information  web site  for                                                               
women.   She  offered her  belief that  in the  state of  Alaska,                                                               
according to  the Denali  Commission, Internet  technology, which                                                               
is  revolutionizing communication  in urban  areas of  Alaska, is                                                               
nonexistent in rural Alaska.  The  services are not there and the                                                               
cost  is  astronomical to  residents,  so  they  do not  have  it                                                               
available.   She asked who  this information would benefit.   Ms.                                                               
Gardner told  the committee  the language  in the  bill indicates                                                               
that it is to be  unbiased and should provide alternative options                                                               
to  abortion,  but in  subsection  2(a)  and subsection  6,  this                                                               
language is  not unbiased.   She said this section  describes the                                                               
fetal development of  an unborn child from  fertilization to full                                                               
term,  including photographs.   This  bill is  designed to  scold                                                               
women and  to intimidate  them, she  said.   She stated  that she                                                               
believes  this  bill says  woman  are  not competent  or  capable                                                               
enough to make  this decision on their own or  that women are not                                                               
intelligent enough  to go  out there,  get information,  and make                                                               
that  decision   rationally  with  their  family,   preacher,  or                                                               
physician.   Ms.  Gardner  said  these are  the  reasons why  the                                                               
legislature wants  to mandate  legislation to  create a  web site                                                               
and  force  physicians  to  prove  that  they  have  given  their                                                               
patients this information.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. GARDNER said  that 20 years ago or more,  people did not talk                                                               
about abortions.   Women did not  have a lot of  choices and they                                                               
surely did not have people they could  speak to.  Now there are a                                                               
lot of  services out  there.  The  information is  on television,                                                               
radio, and in  the print media.  [Abortion] is  not an issue that                                                               
is  not spoken  of or  a procedure  that people  are unaware  of.                                                               
Everyone  knows about  it.    Ms. Gardner  pointed  out that  the                                                               
situation has changed.   This is another reason  why she believes                                                               
the State  of Alaska does  not believe these women  are competent                                                               
enough  to  make this  decision  on  their  own.   She  said  she                                                               
respects the sponsor's  intent to make sure  there is information                                                               
out  there,  but   that  can  be  achieved   by  contributing  to                                                               
organizations that do that.  She  said she does not believe it is                                                               
necessary to provide a state regulation [law].                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. GARDNER said  that she has a question about  the bill on page                                                               
4,  line  27,  where  it  talks about  "a  preponderance  of  the                                                               
evidence that  a person  gave to  a woman a  written copy  of the                                                               
material  maintained  on  the  Internet."     She  reported  that                                                               
according  to  the new  HIPAA  law,  no information  regarding  a                                                               
person's  medical  records  is  to be  given  to  anyone  without                                                               
written consent.   This  bill does  not even  pay any  respect to                                                               
that law  and would violate  it, she  suggested.  She  stated the                                                               
law [HIPAA] is only  as good as its enforcement.   The only way a                                                               
doctor can prove  compliance is by having some  state employee go                                                               
to the  doctor and ask him/her  to prove compliance.   How is the                                                               
information validated?   It means  someone is looking  at private                                                               
medical records, which violates their  privacy.  Ms. Gardner said                                                               
this bill  is not the answer  and asked the committee  to not let                                                               
this bill pass.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1300                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO  asked  what   her  affiliations  are  with                                                               
respect to this issue.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  GARDNER  responded  that  she has  no  affiliations  and  is                                                               
speaking only for herself as an active registered voter.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA commented that  the average citizen usually                                                               
does  not   come  in  and   testify.    Usually  it   is  someone                                                               
representing a group.  She  asked how sophisticated the women are                                                               
who seek abortions in her circle.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS.  GARDNER  replied  that  the  people  she  knows  are  almost                                                               
overwhelmed with the technology today.   This issue is sensitive,                                                               
personal, and private.   Because of the  political sensitivity to                                                               
this issue, there is a great  deal of print media available.  She                                                               
has  had  family  members  and  friends  who  have  talked  about                                                               
abortion.  Now  sex education is taught to children.   Most women                                                               
are high  school graduates and can  research an issue; it  is not                                                               
like 50 years ago  when women did not know what to  do.  She said                                                               
women are competent and capable of making decisions now.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1172                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO  said  if  the  amount  of  information  is                                                               
overwhelming, and the  women are competent and  capable, then why                                                               
are there so many teen pregnancies at the high school level.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1136                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. GARDNER responded that it is  not just women's fault, but she                                                               
agrees  that women  should take  protection, and  so should  men.                                                               
She said  she does not  have an answer to  Representative Gatto's                                                               
question.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  commented   that  Representative  Gatto's                                                               
question is  a good  one.   There were a  rash of  pregnancies in                                                               
Homer for several  years; and those girls wanted  to get pregnant                                                               
because it  was the  thing to do  at the time,  he surmised.   It                                                               
astounds him and others.  They  were having babies in high school                                                               
and these were not accidents.  It  was the rage for a while.  Why                                                               
some make these choices is confounding to us, he said.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA  said that  a  recent  report showed  that                                                               
births to  teens shows  Alaska behind the  national average.   At                                                               
one time Alaska  led the nation, but that turned  around.  Alaska                                                               
is doing better.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GATTO   pointed   out   the   contradiction   in                                                               
information:     Ms.  Gardner  said   that  Alaska's   women  are                                                               
overwhelmed with  information, but earlier  she said in  the Bush                                                               
there is  not good access  to information.   He said  he actually                                                               
believes that there is good access  in the Bush because Alaska is                                                               
the  most  Internet-connected state  in  the  country and  it  is                                                               
available.   He  commented that  Ms. Gardner  is one  of the  few                                                               
people  he   has  heard  say   that  the  problem  is   too  much                                                               
information.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. GARDNER said that the common  citizen does not have access to                                                               
the  Internet in  the Bush.    The cost  to use  the Internet  is                                                               
expensive; however,  there is television, radio,  and the printed                                                               
word.  She believes this bill  still says women are not competent                                                               
to make this  decision.  She disagrees with  this assumption, she                                                               
told members.   This bill is  not about new information,  but old                                                               
and biased information, and about saying women are not capable.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO responded  that he does not  think women are                                                               
not capable.   He said that if  someone goes to a  store and buys                                                               
anything, there  are labels that go  on and on and  on; that does                                                               
not  mean that  the  storeowner or  the  manufacturer thinks  the                                                               
consumer is  incompetent and therefore  has to  be told a  lot of                                                               
information.   It is  simply another source  of information.   He                                                               
asked whether Ms.  Gardner would object to a label  on a can that                                                               
specifies what  vitamins are contained  in it, for  example, that                                                               
milk has  vitamin D, and  therefore it implies that  the consumer                                                               
is incompetent  to find this  information himself or  herself and                                                               
thus would be insulted it is on a milk container.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0874                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. GARDNER  said she would  not find  that insulting.   She said                                                               
she  believes knowledge  is  powerful.   But  what  this bill  is                                                               
saying  is that  it is  mandatory that  the physician  prove that                                                               
beyond  a preponderance  of the  evidence he/she  has given  this                                                               
specific information to  the patient before the  procedure can be                                                               
done.     Ms.  Gardner  stated   that  this  is   not  additional                                                               
information; it  is mandatory.  If  this bill said this  web site                                                               
is available  to be helpful,  she said  she would say  thank you,                                                               
but this is mandatory.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0770                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BOB JOHNSON, M.D., testified via  teleconference in opposition to                                                               
HB 292.  He told the committee  that during his last ten years of                                                               
medical  practice he  performed  approximately  70 abortions  per                                                               
year for  a total  of 700  abortions.  He  said he  is thoroughly                                                               
familiar  with the  procedure, the  risks, and  the results.   He                                                               
told  the committee  he is  retired and  has nothing  to gain  by                                                               
promoting abortion.  He commented  that Senator Dyson's testimony                                                               
before the  committee cautioned  the members  to note  that there                                                               
will not  be any reference  to the  term "unborn child"  by those                                                               
opposing the bill.   Dr. Johnson said this  clearly indicates his                                                               
bias  with  respect  to  abortion and  his  obvious  conflict  of                                                               
interest.  He said he thought this  was to be a hearing and not a                                                               
discussion of  the bill and  testimony of the committee  in favor                                                               
of the  bill, and it soon  became apparent that it  was.  Because                                                               
of  this,  only  two  individuals   were  able  to  testify  that                                                               
afternoon, he  complained.  Some  of those  who were not  able to                                                               
testify were not able to come this afternoon.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DR. JOHNSON told  the committee his purpose for  testifying is to                                                               
see  that obstacles  are not  placed in  front of  women who  for                                                               
multiple  reasons  feel they  need  an  abortion.   Each  of  his                                                               
patients was provided with options  available to them in addition                                                               
to an  abortion.   Each was told  as much as  she wanted  to know                                                               
about the procedure, risks, and  outcome.  Each was scheduled for                                                               
a follow-up  visit two weeks  after the  procedure.  He  said his                                                               
finding  supports  Dr.  Murphy's  findings.   He  said  that  the                                                               
committee made a big fuss about  her use of the term "termination                                                               
of pregnancy", which he suspects  was her attempt to be sensitive                                                               
to  patients' feelings  about the  term "abortion"  because those                                                               
who are in favor of a right to life have made it a nasty word.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DR. JOHNSON  told the committee  that his findings show  that the                                                               
risks are considerably less than what  some are led to believe by                                                               
those  who  oppose abortion.    For  instance,  only two  of  his                                                               
patients    experienced   post-abortion    depression   requiring                                                               
treatment, and  both of  these patients  recovered.   Dr. Johnson                                                               
said this  is less than  the incidence of  postpartum depression.                                                               
None of his patients lost  enough blood to require a transfusion,                                                               
two of  his patients had post-abortion  infections that responded                                                               
promptly to treatment, and those that  so desired went on to have                                                               
normal  pregnancies.    He  said he  saw  no  fertility  problems                                                               
associated with  abortion.   He told the  committee that  he does                                                               
not believe  politicians have any business  telling patients what                                                               
they must  know, in  spite of  what advice  they receive  or from                                                               
whom.  It is  an insult to the intelligence of  women who, in his                                                               
opinion, know  exactly what they  want to know and  if encouraged                                                               
will make sure their physician tells them.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0560                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DR. JOHNSON asked  if the committee really  thinks physicians are                                                               
not familiar  with their responsibility  to explain  the options,                                                               
risks, benefits, and details of  any treatment.  This legislation                                                               
places more obstacles in the path  of those who need an abortion.                                                               
This   legislation,  along   with   much  inaccurate   publicity,                                                               
complicates the  decision and  tends to make  women who  elect to                                                               
have an abortion  feel guilty.  He said he  thinks the occasional                                                               
suicide  he  has heard  mentioned  is  a  direct result  of  this                                                               
[inaccurate  publicity].   Dr. Johnson  asked  the committee,  on                                                               
behalf of  women who  cannot raise  a child,  for any  reason, to                                                               
reject this legislation and any similar legislation.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0520                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GENENEIVA PEARSON  testified via teleconference in  opposition to                                                               
HB  292.   She  told  the  committee  that  she listened  to  Dr.                                                               
Murphy's testimony  and believes that physicians  are taking care                                                               
of the concerns the committee has.   Ms. Pearson said that if the                                                               
committee  believed  legislation   was  necessary,  Dr.  Murphy's                                                               
testimony should  make it clear  that the bill is  not necessary.                                                               
Government  should  not  interfere with  a  relationship  between                                                               
physician and  patient.  She  said that the women  who complained                                                               
to  Representative Dahlstrom  about  their choices  need to  take                                                               
responsibility and not blame someone else for their actions.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0401                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KAREN  VOSBURGH,  Executive  Director,   Alaska  Right  to  Life,                                                               
testified via teleconference in support of  HB 292.  She told the                                                               
committee  that she  represents not  only herself,  but also  the                                                               
50,000 people in their database.   Ms. Vosburgh said that it is a                                                               
fact that  abortion leads to  physical and  psychological damages                                                               
to women.  Abortionist  do not like to call it  a child, but that                                                               
is exactly what  it is.  The description of  the pre-born baby is                                                               
relevant to  a woman's  decision about abortion.   To  claim that                                                               
this  information  does  not pertain  directly  to  the  abortion                                                               
procedure is  to deny any  possibility that a second  human being                                                               
is  involved.   Women  deserve  to  know  exactly what  is  being                                                               
removed before  they make that  decision.  The doctor,  nurse, or                                                               
counselor who  protects the woman  seeking the abortion  from the                                                               
facts  to keep  them  from anxiety  or guilt,  has  made a  moral                                                               
decision on the woman's behalf,  she said, and that is completely                                                               
unacceptable.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0318                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. VOSBURGH  said everyone has  heard the reference of  the pre-                                                               
born  baby  as tissue  or  some  term  that  would not  give  any                                                               
humanity  to the  baby within  it.   Abortionists say  they fully                                                               
inform their  patients before committing the  abortions; however,                                                               
Ms.  Vosburgh  told  members,  nearly 80  percent  of  the  women                                                               
surveyed by  the Elliot  Institute said  that they  were actively                                                               
misinformed  by their  counselors prior  to their  abortion.   In                                                               
every  one  of   the  thousands  of  cases   documented,  a  full                                                               
explanation and  possible risks of  complications were  not given                                                               
by abortion providers.  When  questions were asked, answers about                                                               
risks were  understated, misconstrued,  or avoided.   Rather than                                                               
addressing risks,  alternatives, fetal development,  the abortion                                                               
counseling  consisted  of  birth  control techniques.    This  is                                                               
precisely why  there needs  to be  informed-consent laws.   Women                                                               
have the  right to know,  and a lot of  them are not  getting the                                                               
information.     Women  rely  on   their  doctors   for  accurate                                                               
information, and  they are  not getting it,  she asserted.   That                                                               
does not apply across the board,  but in all the research she has                                                               
done, it  applied to  a great  percentage of women.   It  is very                                                               
necessary that women  have this knowledge.   Ms. Vosburgh pointed                                                               
out that those  providing the counseling have a  huge conflict of                                                               
interest, considering that they  receive payment for "committing"                                                               
abortions on those they counsel.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0212                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  VOSBURGH told  the  committee  of an  example  in Red  River                                                               
Abortion  Clinic,  where  she  said   a  counselor  provided  the                                                               
following false statements to her clients:                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Anti-abortion   activists   say  having   an   abortion                                                                    
     increases  the risk  of  developing  breast cancer  and                                                                    
     endangers future  childbearing.   None of  these claims                                                                    
     are  supported  by   medical  research  or  established                                                                    
     medical organizations.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. VOSBURGH stated  that this abortionist should  not be passing                                                               
out information like  this.  If this person were  to research the                                                               
evidence about breast  cancer, future childbearing complications,                                                               
and a huge  psychological impact that most women  have, she would                                                               
not be providing this information.   The hormonal disruption that                                                               
occurs  when  a  woman's pregnancy  is  artificially  interrupted                                                               
leaves  the  breast  with  an abnormally  high  number  of  cells                                                               
vulnerable to cancer, she told members.   The first study done on                                                               
abortion  as a  risk factor  for breast  cancer was  published in                                                               
1971.    That  report  showed  that  abortion  appears  to  cause                                                               
substantial  increase  and  risk  of  subsequent  breast  cancer.                                                               
Almost  two decades  later, 15  or 14  American studies  bear out                                                               
this early  warning.   But to  this day,  women are  not informed                                                               
about this significant health threat.   She told the committee it                                                               
is time for the American  people to decide for themselves whether                                                               
the  evidence warrants  disclosure.    It is  time  the women  in                                                               
Alaska  get protection  because  the  abortionists providing  the                                                               
services are not informing them.   She told the committee she has                                                               
a lot more information and will send it on to the committee.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0090                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO announced  that Chair  Wilson had  left the                                                               
meeting and  that he will be  chairing the meeting.   He asked if                                                               
anyone  else on  line  would  like to  testify.    [There was  no                                                               
response.]                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-42, SIDE A                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CISSNA commented  that those  wishing to  testify                                                               
via teleconference  often need a  few minutes before they  can be                                                               
heard.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO announced that  Chair Wilson had returned to                                                               
the meeting.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0031                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WILSON asked  Representative  Dahlstrom  to summarize  any                                                               
further statement she might have on HB 292.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAHLSTROM  commented  that  the  information  Ms.                                                               
Vosburgh  provided in  testimony is  in  the bill  packets.   She                                                               
thanked those  that testified  and said  that it  takes a  lot of                                                               
courage  to   talk  about   sensitive  issues.     Representative                                                               
Dahlstrom  said  there are  comments  made  in testimony  by  Ms.                                                               
Gardner that  bother her  and she  wants to  address those.   Ms.                                                               
Gardner had said  this bill states that women  are not competent.                                                               
Representative  Dahlstrom said  she absolutely  does not  believe                                                               
that is  the case.   She  said she operates  on the  true feeling                                                               
that information  is power  and it  does not  matter what  it is,                                                               
whether it was the example  given previously about reading labels                                                               
in the grocery store, or staying  current on all types of medical                                                               
information, health  information, the best  way to build  a home,                                                               
or any area where there is  an effort to gain as much information                                                               
as  possible.   Representative  Dahlstrom stated  for the  record                                                               
that it is absolutely untrue that  her intent in filing this bill                                                               
was based on her belief that women are not competent.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0186                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAHLSTROM  told the  committee  that  she had  an                                                               
opportunity to  speak with a woman  who had an abortion  30 years                                                               
ago.   It just  came up in  a conversation.   The woman  told her                                                               
that it  almost destroyed  her life  and that  she had  years and                                                               
years of counseling.  She said  she does not know the particulars                                                               
on this, but that this is a  woman who has been dealing with this                                                               
for a  long time.   As a  previous testifier [Ms.  Pearson] said,                                                               
individuals must be  responsible for their actions  and there are                                                               
consequences for  every action that  is taken  in life.   That is                                                               
why it is  extremely important that there is  as much information                                                               
as  possible,  so  that  all women  can  have  this  information.                                                               
Representative Dahlstrom  told the  committee of  a woman  who is                                                               
very close  to her, who  had an  abortion and her  comments were,                                                               
"Why  can't this  be  like when  I  go  to the  store  and I  buy                                                               
something and  I decide  I don't  want it  and I  go back  to the                                                               
store and  I return  it and it  is done."   Buyer's remorse  is a                                                               
simple  thing  that is  experienced  by  many individuals.    For                                                               
something that  is so  critical that  affects women's  bodies and                                                               
affects them for  a very long period of time,  erring on the side                                                               
of caution cannot be bad in any way, shape, or form.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM  addressed the  comments and  facts that                                                               
were  stated earlier  from  a  publication Representative  Cissna                                                               
has.  She said she is interested  in looking at those facts.  She                                                               
agreed that Alaska used to be  the number-one state in the nation                                                               
in   teenage  pregnancies,   unwed   pregnancies,  and   unwanted                                                               
pregnancies.  While the numbers  are down, her personal belief is                                                               
that a big reason that those numbers  are down is due to the many                                                               
abortions that  are taking care  of those pregnancies.   She said                                                               
that she does not have the numbers  in front of her now, but will                                                               
have them available for the next  hearing.  She recalled that the                                                               
numbers were  very alarming  and that they  listed the  number of                                                               
abortions performed  on young  women between the  ages of  12 and                                                               
15, 15  and 17, and  then 18 and  above.   It was broken  down by                                                               
inside   the   Municipality   of  Anchorage   and   outside   the                                                               
Municipality of Anchorage.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0438                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM said  that she goes back  to the thought                                                               
that  information is  power.    If a  woman  has  made that  very                                                               
personal choice, she will respect that  choice.  She said that in                                                               
her  life  when  there  are very  important  decisions  to  make,                                                               
information  provided to  her helps  her make  the best  decision                                                               
possible.  People all deal  with the consequences of our actions.                                                               
The intent of this legislation  is to provide information so that                                                               
when  people  make choices,  they  are  informed, and  they  know                                                               
exactly what  they are doing.   Then they can move  on with their                                                               
life and have a happy productive life.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0501                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   CISSNA   responded    that   she   agrees   with                                                               
Representative  Dahlstrom's  testimony  that one  can  never  get                                                               
enough information and she supports  that effort.  However, since                                                               
many of  the people who  probably are seeking this  procedure are                                                               
people well  over 35  years old, why  include the  requirement to                                                               
check  to see  if  they did  their homework.    These people  are                                                               
individuals  who  have done  all  the  things expected  in  being                                                               
responsible adults.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0560                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAHLSTROM  replied that she  is 45 years  old, and                                                               
has  been  through  many  experiences  in  life.    However,  she                                                               
continues to be  amazed at all the things she  does not know, and                                                               
all  the  things  that  she has  not  experienced  because  these                                                               
situations  have   not  been  a   part  of  her   personal  life.                                                               
Representative Dahlstrom said as she  learns and becomes aware of                                                               
other experiences,  it makes  her a better  person, and  it makes                                                               
her  more accepting  of other  people.   Understanding  different                                                               
circumstances helps  to shape who  she is because she  gains that                                                               
information.  When someone is  over 21, he/she is responsible for                                                               
certain things; for example, most people  by the time they are in                                                               
their 30s or 40s have purchased a  home.  The intent of this bill                                                               
is  not  to  state that  someone  is  not  able  to make  a  good                                                               
decision, but maybe  it is the first time that  person has had to                                                               
make this decision.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WILSON  announced that will be  the end of testimony  on HB
292 until next week.  [HB 292 was held over.]                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0702                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee meeting                                                                
was adjourned at 5:00 p.m.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                

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